VILLAGE OF GRANVILLE
COUNCIL MINUTES
August 7, 2002
CALL TO ORDER: (by Mayor McGowan at 7:32pm)
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
Those responding to the Roll Call were Councilmembers:
Mayor McGowan, Vice Mayor Candy Moore; Clifton Crais; Lyn
Robertson; Richard Main; Dan Bellman; Melissa Hartfield
CITIZENS’ COMMENTS (7:33pm)
All Topics
Mr. Ben Rader, 39 Briarwood Drive, sent an e-mail that was
successfully received by all but Dan Bellman for whom Mr.
Rader had an incorrect address. Mr. Rader addressed the
purchase of all or part of the Bryn Du Mansion. One year
ago Mr. Rader said he was asked by a public official to
look at the Jeffrey Mansion in Columbus, Ohio, which he
stated might be similar to Bryn Du. He had access to the
Jeffrey Mansion books and operations and saw it was a very
large project. He learned the Jeffrey Mansion was donated
and was expensive to maintain. He urged council to take a
hard look at the mansion and the associated costs of
running it. Mr. Rader recalled many years ago when he was
a member of Granville Village Council that Council
attempted to institute an income tax and the issue was
placed on the ballot. The tax did not pass. He suggested
Council place the issue of the Bryn Du Mansion purchase on
the ballot, too.
Jean Binkovitz, 258 Carmarthan Way, expressed her concern
about the Spring Valley pool and what will happen to it.
As a parent of a member of the swim team, she believes
Council should keep it as a swimming pool because it keeps
kids busy and is a good family experience.
Sara Jean Wilhelm, 202 Thresher Street, favors purchasing
Bryn Du and the Spring Valley pool. She stated the
mansion is historic and she feels that the village needs
to preserve the green space. If upkeep becomes a problem,
she suggested the village sell it or rent it. According
to Mrs. Wilhelm, Spring Valley pool is deeded in such a
way that dedicates it as a community facility. She says
that in a 1974 survey the village did not include it in
the survey because the pool was believed to be part of a
community project. Mrs. Wilhelm supports purchasing both
properties.
Dave McCall, 112 Victoria, is against the purchase of Bryn
Du. He has serious concerns about renovations. He asked
council about what renovations would need to be performed
if the mansion became a public facility in regards to
disabilities, asbestos mitigation, etc. He said that as
you go by the property you could see it needs a lot of
work now. He asked what it would be used for? Mr. McCall
believes it will cost beyond current costs to get it up to
speed and that maintenance will be expensive and long
term. He asked how much that would be? Where the funds
will come from? He is concerned about the initial and
long-term costs. He believes there are too many unanswered
questions to support the purchase.
Kitty Consolo, 18 Samson Place, commended Council for the
time and for listening to all the public comments and for
the process of taking the time to review all the issues.
She encouraged elected officials not to rush into the
project. Ms. Consolo expressed she has a lot of questions
and agrees a lot with what has been already stated. Ms.
Consolo says Council should not rush, but should not wait
too long to do something either. Regarding the Spring
Valley pool, what does it give us as a community? It is a
place that fosters community spirit! Because of its
graduated shallow end the pool provides a place where
mothers can come together with their children. It has
lanes for those who are into fitness, as is Ms. Consolo.
She said because of Spring Valley, she was able to become
a member of the swim team and then become a lifeguard,
etc. She talked about it being more than a pool with its
hiking trails, meeting rooms, basketball, volleyball, and
picnic areas, and mentioned that recently, the facility
held over 400 at a recent music concert. Ms. Consolo
asserted Spring Valley is more than just a pool but more
of a community gathering place. She said it has a lot of
history and many come back to Granville in the summer just
to go to the pool. The pool has the potential of being
used year-round and that, too, is important. She urged
Council to take their time, get all the costs, assets &
liabilities.
Eloise Dezwarte, 338 East College Street, said she was
very glad Council is considering both projects. She says
Council probably won’t get another chance like this and
will be glad they did it now. Dezwarte suggested that if
it doesn’t work out that the rest will be manageable;
Council will find a buyer later as the property will
always be in demand. She says if the mansion is sold,
Council will be unable to buy it back. One of the
objections she has heard about the purchase is what it
would do to the taxes that wouldn’t go to the school –
that evens out because if the front part is developed, she
asks Council to think how many kids would be added to the
school system. Ms. Dezwarte asserted that Spring Valley
is a gorgeous piece of property and thinks that kind of
green space won’t be available any more. She said
purchasing it will not take much from the schools because
the tax area isn’t as high there. Ms. Dezwarte checked
with a tax person for the schools who told her that they
get about $60,000 from Bryn Du – $6,000 from land around
the pool. Both spaces are beautiful pieces of property
and is the village’s last chance for preserving it.
Council should grab them and use the many talented people
they have in the area to make the properties if not
profitable, at least, sustainable.
Gloria Joseph, 251 Sunrise Street, read a letter from her
sister, a former resident. Coming from someone who has
seen beautiful surroundings in exclusive resorts, the
letter describes the pool and surrounding property in
lovely terms. Spring Valley pool is one of Ohio’s only
spring fed pools, which makes it economically viable. She
mentioned Ogilbey Park in Wheeling, WV, as an example.
Many city pools are hot because they are not spring fed
like Spring Valley. She appreciates what she had now that
she doesn’t have it. The letter is signed, Terry Joseph,
former Granville resident.
Gloria Gerber, 1746 North Granville Road, stated she lives
across Newark-Granville Road from the mansion. She has
traffic concerns. She informed Council that a car in the
crosswalk area at Jones and Newark-Granville Road already
hit her child. She wants to know whether or not it will
be opened and/or create more traffic. She wants answers
to her questions before she can support the mansion’s
purchase by the village.
Liz Mahr, 354 North Granger Street, talked about how
Spring Valley, as far as open spaces, is one the prettiest
places that she knows. With Spring Valley pool you would
get 48 acres of park, spring, buildings, a picnic shelter,
and a huge pool, which is friendlier to small children and
parents than any other pool in the area. She hopes to
keep it the way that it is.
Donna Childers, 115 North Granger, a Spring Valley parent,
she says her daughter has been there since she is 5 and is
much older now. Ms. Childers supports the purchase of the
property. She knows Council needs to consider the cost
and liability, etc., but stressed she wants to keep it the
fun, safe place that it is. Ms. Childers said a lot of
other communities where they travel for swim meets have
pools and knows Granville can afford this—as the places
they go are much smaller. When they are teens and at the
pool and having a good time it is healthy and the
community needs to promote that kind of thing – and
nurture our kids. Also, the kids are there together as a
team. She said it’s unusual as a team sport to have kids
of all ages playing together from 7 to 17. The mentoring
that goes on is a very valuable thing to see as a parent.
Also, a lot of older people are at the pool doing laps so
it’s not just for the kids. If councilmembers haven’t
been at the pool Ms. Childers believes they don’t have a
sense of what it brings to the community.
Jeff Gress, 161 New Gran Drive, thanked Council for
listening to public comment. He agrees with Ms. Childers,
people need to give careful thought to a recreation center
for the community. He does not believe the village will
be able to operate the pool as it has been operated in the
past. Parking and access is inadequate. Can the village
do the same things as that a private owner can do? What
changes will come to Spring Valley if it is publicly vs.
privately held?
Mr. Gress explained that the mansion is right across the
street from his house. It is a great purchase to make if
the proper discussion is had prior to the purchase. This
may be an appropriate place for all publicly operated
divisions in the area to be located. If township
facilities, library, recreation center, and senior
citizens center are all located there, it will return to
the commercial tax base because of the trade-off that will
be beneficial to the community as a whole. He hopes that
as Council continues to look at both that they will look
at all aspects carefully.
Dorothy Garrett, 45 Donald Ross Drive, was a swim team
mother. She believes both properties, sound lovely to
purchase. The village and township need to get together
to see how they can coordinate the activities before they
purchase anything. Before a commitment is made, the
village should look at all the financial consequences
beyond the purchase price of the property such as
maintenance and upkeep. People talk about the uses of the
mansion and moving all village services there – what will
that do to the village? What about the post office?
People have objected to this in the past. These services
are what bring people to town. She encouraged Council to
give this more consideration. Ms. Garret said the village
has only known for a couple of weeks about the purchase of
Bryn Du and the pool. It may be more appropriate for the
Recreation Commission to purchase the pool.
Maxine Montgomerty, 345 Shannon Lane, encouraged applauded
the young people who came to Council this evening to get
involved. She believes the community needs a lot more
information. She believes there could be capital expenses
and maintenance that Council is not aware of right now.
She again stressed that Council needs more information.
Ms. Montgomery would like to see both issues on the
ballot. She would like to hear some discussion from
council on financing plans for both purchases. She wants
to hear about the loss of revenue to schools. She
encouraged Council to give this lots of talk, time and
share it with the community to help everyone understand
what decision Council wants to reach and why.
Carol Roberts, 243 Denison Drive, stood to publicly state
she loves Spring Valley pool and if she hadn’t seen it
with a realtor she would not have moved here. She wants
to see Council’s plans for it and how it will be run and
to see if the physical land will change. She asked
Council whether or not Denison was kicking some money in
for the purchase.
Carol Goland, 843 Burg Street, expressed her strong
support for preserving Spring Valley pool. She said it is
a treasure for the community, a natural and cultural
treasure, and what makes a place distinctive, is what
weaves the fabric of that community. Spring Valley pool
is a place that does just that for Granville. People have
been heard saying that the Heath pool will suffice, but to
her that is like saying we don’t need 4th of July in
Granville – Columbus fireworks will suffice. She
encouraged Council to give it strong thought and be open.
Most will appreciate and understand the financing of this
village and how you can accomplish this purchase.
Kathy Minks, 3889 Granview Road, said she has lived here a
little over a year. She and her family came from a
community with explosive growth that was not handled
well. They came to Granville because of the small town
feel that it has. She sees Spring Valley pool as unique
to the village and to the community and knows it is a
wonderful place to meet your neighbors and learn about
what is going on, like the meeting this very evening. She
said she doesn’t know about tax bases, etc., but had risen
to speak from her heart. It is a wonderful resource for
the entire community and buying it will help control
growth. She said she very much wants to maintain the
small sense of community and uniqueness that the village
now has.
Barb Franks, 210 East Maple, talked about the land that
runs along the street into town, Route 16, as a place
where a great restaurant or something on top the hill
could be built that would generate a great deal of money
and funds for the school district. But, she said if
Council uses the land for revenue purposes we get to keep
the land and the revenue.
Howard Garrett, 45 Donald Ross Drive, stated that the
bottom line with Bryn Du is that it is totally
irresponsible to go ahead with this purchase due to lack
of knowledge, lack of planning, a lack of information,
etc. Those who think otherwise, Mr. Garret said, would
likely be welcome to work for Arthur Anderson.
Lisa Miller, 217 East College Street, Granville. Ms.
Miller says Spring Valley is all she has ever known. Her
daughter is a 4th generation Spring “Valleyan.” She
encouraged Council to leave it a part of Granville, as it
is a treasure.
Mayor McGowan closed Citizens’ Comments at 8:07pm.
Kendal
Rob Drake, 142 Brennan Drive, representing the Kendal
Corporation, said he is not sure whether Kendal can
support the current proposal that was passed or not. He
had originally cued the language as closely as possible to
the words in the resolution and said Kendal officials are
very concerned that what was adopted is less clear about
what was being said. He said Kendal’s request is that the
objectionable words should be replaced with other words.
He stated that there is a report later in the agenda about
the sewer options. He asked Councilmembers to please tell
Kendal officials and the community as quickly as possible
about what proposal they believe is most feasible and
which direction Council intends to take. Kendal folks
need to know which option is feasible so they can collect
bids from contractors in order to accurately determine
what the real costs of the projects will be. He asked
Council to please revise their motion and again expressed
hope that Council would soon be able to tell Kendal
representatives what is needed so they can proceed quickly
in obtaining their estimates.
Councilmember Crais moved that this topic be moved up the
agenda to New Business. Councilmember Moore seconded this
motion. Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING (8:07pm)
Ordinance No. 08-02, An Ordinance to Authorize The
Purchase of 18.040 Acres And 2.5 Acres of Land Located at
537 Jones Road. No one appeared to speak for or against
the Ordinance. Mayor McGowan closed the Public Hearing at
8:08pm.
Ordinance No. 09-02, An Ordinance To Accept The Donation
of 32.24 Acres of Land on Newark Granville Road. No one
appeared to speak for or against the Ordinance. Mayor
McGowan closed the Public Hearing at 8:09pm.
Ordinance No. 10-02, An Ordinance To Approve the
Conveyance of Up To 19.8 Acres Of Land To The Trustees Of
Granville Township. No one appeared to speak for or
against the Ordinance. Mayor McGowan closed the Public
Hearing at 8:09pm
NEW BUSINESS (8:45pm)
Resolution No. 02-27, A Resolution To Authorize The
Village Manager To Enter Into Negotiations With
Representatives Of The Spring Valley Company, Inc. To
Purchase The Spring Valley Property. Introduced by
Councilmember Crais; second by Counciomember Hartfield.
Councilmember Hartfield then recused herself from
discussion.
Discussion:
Councilmember Main asked why the proposal was in the
present format? Councilmember Crais responded that the
village Law Director told him they needed to put together
a purchase contract and an ordinance would include that.
He simply followed the Law Director’s advice in this
matter.
Councilmember Robertson reminded Council that this is a
process. Councilmember Crais and she held one meeting,
open to the public for input.
Councilmember Moore noted that in past property
discussions Council has had a difference of opinion on
different aspects of this project. Will the Manager have
direction? Will the property remain the same, or will we
be able to develop or sell parts of it? Should the
village own, acquire and run the pool? Can a separate
group do that? How can the manager negotiate without
direction?
Councilmember Main had questions as to the Spring Valley
property and what it would mean to the village if
purchased. The fact that Spring Valley is a local
treasure is obvious. However, there are serious questions
as to whether or not this should be a village purchase,
since it is in the township. He said he is not sure that
he’s willing to send the Village Manager to negotiate a
purchase if Council has not done their due diligence.
Councilmember Robertson recollected discussing this during
executive session, and that negotiations could be a way of
accomplishing this purchase. She believes the more
delicate details of this can be discussed during
additional executive sessions of Council.
Councilmember Crais said it is his understanding that the
purpose of a resolution is part of the process of due
diligence. This would allow Council to get into writing
precisely the information and issues they have been
discussing. The resolution simply asks the Village
Manager to start the ball rolling to accumulate the
information needed to answer the questions that have been
asked and to begin working forward toward a possible
purchase ordinance.
Councilmember Moore stated that she would like to see
Council continue to seek further investigation of this
property. Her earlier question indicated she was just not
sure that the proposal Council was discussing would allow
the Village Manager to do what it is they want him to
do.
Councilmember Crais stated he believes it is necessary and
he and Councilmember Robertson are committed the slow
process to looking into this issue.
Councilmember Moore stated her concern of what she’s read
in the paper. It appeared that terms of a contract were
being discussed that were different than what Council had
previously discussed.
Mayor McGowan commented that two years ago the Recreation
Commission’s opinion was that they did not want to run the
pool due to liability issues and traffic and parking
issues. There has been a lot of talk from a broad
spectrum of interested parties, residents, and elected
officials about the need for a community center with an
indoor and outdoor pool, and it was suggested that the
students could use a pool built near the school. The
township trustees looked at this five years ago and said
they were not interested as they had other items of higher
priority on their lists. McGowan thinks Council needs to
have the support of the township to proceed.
Additionally, Council has not seen financial records of
Spring Valley; at least he has not seen any. He said
that as there is another facility in the township,
government should not compete with another business of a
similar nature located so close. He said he cannot
support the resolution as written.
Councilmember Crais commented that Spring Valley is a
chlorinated pool and that their financial reports have
been upstairs for over a year as a part of the appraisal
Council contracted.
Councilmember Robertson believes that having one sort of
recreation area should not preclude having another. It
could be entirely possible to have an indoor pool
somewhere and to maintain the Spring Valley area, too.
She reminded everyone that Spring Valley is not just a
pool. There is a whole lot more out there. As stated
tonight, it is a treasure, a gem. A lot of people like to
go to both of Granville’s outdoor facilities in the
community and preserving them is an important thing to
do. She sees this as one way of preserving the community
because Spring Valley is part of our history, community
culture and where neighbors meet one another, etc.
Councilmember Crais moved the question.
Councilmember Main requested that additional questions be
permitted before proceeding and asked the Law Director
Crites if there were any problems with the village buying
the property outside the village.
Law Director Crites stated that title seven of the Ohio
Revised Code has a section that allows municipalities to
buy properties outside its boundaries for recreation
purposes.
Councilmember Crais again called the question; seconded by
Councilmember Robertson.
A Roll call vote yielded three (3) affirmative votes
(Councilmembers Crais, Robertson and Bellman, three (3) no
votes (McGowan, Moore, Main) and one (1) abstention
(Hartfield). Resolution No. 02-27 is not adopted.
Councilmember Moore made the motion for
reconsideration of this proposal with amendments. Law
Director Crais suggested Council introduce a new
resolution, not reconsideration, as the previous motion
failed.
Resolution No. 02-28, A Resolution To Authorize The
Village Manager To Enter Into Negotiations With
Representatives Of The Spring Valley Company, Inc. To
Purchase The Spring Valley Property. Introduced by Vice
Mayor Moore; second by Mayor McGowan.
Discussion:
Councilmember Moore re-read the proposal explaining that
Section One’s modification direct the Village Manager to
carry out due diligence and only Council orders on the
Spring Valley property.
Councilmember Crais asked what Council’s direction is
since it was decided in Executive Session, except for the
agreed upon process. Councilmember Moore responded that
usually those discussions make it clear how people feel
about these things. Council agreed on a price in
Executive Session, which was the only thing she was clear
about.
Councilmember Bellman said he sees both resolutions as
being virtually identical. Bellman stated that even if
Council had passed the first resolution, Council would
have to have had a few more details than what is presently
being discussed. However, he feels that the language
being written now was implied in the first resolution.
Since Council is making changes however, he suggested an
amendment to Sections 3 and 4. In Section 3, Bellman
proposed adding the following language: “Council shall
appoint a Task Force to review, evaluate and consider the
cost of operation of the facility should the village
decide to agree to purchase the property.” Bellman
suggested this after hearing the community discussion
about the pool. He contended that it is difficult to put
the kind of detail Council wants to put into this in just
one Council meeting. Bellman believes Council can get
business people in the area who can talk numbers (such as
Ben Rader) to do the work. He said that there are others
with good backgrounds from whom he would like to hear
review on how this will work, what it will cost, etc.
Bellman said these are ideas Council could ultimately take
or leave but it would be helpful to do it now.
Councilmember Robertson seconded this motion. Motion
carried (5-1-1abstain)
Mayor McGowan requested further discussion. Councilmember
Main asked how the Task Force would report to Council?
Councilmember Bellman responded that the report could be
given during Executive Session or publicly.
OLD BUSINESS
Kendal – Request for motion amendment.
Councilmember Crais moved to accept the language as
recommended in the attachment. Councilmember Main
seconded the motion.
Discussion:
Vice Mayor Moore commented that the only change in the
language was to remove the words “in principle.” Mr.
Drake representing the Kendal Corporation answered that
only a few minor changes were made.
Councilmember Bellman commented that taking out the word
in principle didn’t bother him. His biggest concern was
that Council was promoting project “C” or as close to that
as possible. Now with the amended language he is sure that
is where Council was in the discussion.
Rob Drake responded that the motion was based on the
language of July 17, 2002, meeting as taken from the
original minutes for the July 10, 2002, meeting. Drake
said Kendal raised the questions at Council whether or not
people had made recommendations on the language. He said
that Kendal felt there had been language in written
amendments covering the issue. He then took the language
from the July 17, 2002, meeting to create the language for
the amendment.
Councilmember Crais recalled that the majority of Council
was in favor of project “C;” but was not in favor of
project “B” or “D,” and that there was a substantial
minority that was committed to project “A”. Of the four,
projects “C” and “A” were the only projects favored.
Councilmember Bellman thought there was another proposal
Council had thought seriously about but did not recall
that being project “A.”
Councilmember Robertson suggested it would be meaningful
to look back at the actual approved minutes. She
remembers seeing section “D;” and remembers it as
Councilmember Crais did, and that project “A” came in
after that. Robertson said project “A” is pretty much
what Kendal wants to have in place. Councilmember Main
said the minutes of the July 10, 2002 meeting were not
accurate which is why they were changed at the July 17,
2002, meeting.
Village Manager Hickman described the different sewage
systems and talked about what easements might be
necessary. Hickman said today we could construct the
sewer via private easements, as described in version or
project “C.”
Vice Mayor Moore asked if the requirements for the
easements were something Council would have to approve?
Hickman said that presently there are several requests for
taps at point of consideration, some annexation
requirements, and one property that wants one tap and
another that wants one or more taps. He believes the
taps would have to be tied to annexation.
Councilmember Bellman brought up another issue. He said
if there is nothing on paper about the prior meeting in
question, Council does have an audiotape of the meeting.
He suggested that Council listen to the tape and hear
verbatim what was said so there would be no question what
was passed that night.
Rob Drake commented that he and others from Kendal
had told Council in early January that they needed an
answer by the end of July - a deadline given to them by an
external financial source. He encouraged Council not to
go back and take additional time because he believes they
must to go further now. Drake said Kendal needed Council
to vote yes or no, now.
Councilmember Bellman responded that he would agree if the
second sentence was eliminated.
Mayor McGowan asked Mr. Drake if Kendal wanted to remove
the second sentence at this time?
Mr. Drake stated that without the second sentence, as
illustrated by Councilmember Robertson, there really
wasn’t anything that they could use.
Mayor McGowan suggested amending the proposal to say: “Or
project “A” or “consideration of”.
Councilmember Crais asked Mr. Drake whether or not
Kendal’s concern with the previous document was that it
was “mushy.” Drake replied that Kendal folks thought the
language was “technically mushy.”
Mayor McGowan asserted that he did not believe a majority
of Council had agreed that project “A” was acceptable. He
thought the issue was that Council could not agree on
project “C” because of the easement issues.
Mr. Drake explained that Kendal’s reason for liking
project “A” is that there were fewer wild cards. Kendal
has a time pressure from within and without which is their
reason for preferring project “A”. Drake though it
looked like all pieces could be dealt with from a
management point of view.
Councilmember Roberson said that was how she recalled the
discussion. If project “C” didn’t work due to easements,
Council wanted the project to happen, and project “A”
could happen. That is how she understood why project “A”
was there in the first place.
Manager Hickman stated that project “C” could work. He
would be comfortable with the technical aspects of
project “A” or a modification of projects “C” or “A.”
Motion for amendments was approved (5-0 with 2
abstentions). Motion carried
Ordinance 08-02, An Ordinance To Authorize The Purchase of
18.040 Ac And 2.5 Ac of land located at 537 Jones Road.
Re-introduced by Vice Mayor Moore; second by Councilmember
Main.
Ordinance No. 09-02, An Ordinance To Accept The Donation
of 32.24 Acres Of Land On Newark Granville Road. Re-
introduced by Vice Mayor Moore; second by Councilmember
Main.
Ordinance No. 10-02, An Ordinance To Approve The
Conveyance Of Up To 19.8 Acres Of Land To The Trustees Of
Granville Township. Re-introduced by Vice Mayor Moore;
second by Councilmember Hartfield.
Presentation:
Vice Mayor Moore presented a slide projector presentation
of Bryn Du Manor after receiving a request two (2) weeks
ago from the Village Manager to do a presentation for the
Rotary Club. Moore said it provided a lot of good
information for citizens and hoped it would for Council.
There are a few new facts in this presentation. The
history about Bryn Du is that a few years ago after a
second green space levy was passed, a Green Space
Committee was formed to recommend properties to protect
from development, of which she served on that committee.
It rated the Longaberger (Bryn Du) property as the number
one (#1) property for preservation. The Strategic Land
Acquisition Committee that consisted of Councilmember
Crais and others, also determined the Longaberger property
as key to green space preservation in the community.
At the time the owners of the property were not
entertaining offers, although the estimated value was
approximately $3.2M. However, development rights were
still an issue. Longaberger said if they decided to sell
they would talk to the village first. An appraisal of
$440,000 to $650,000 was obtained for the field and a
proposal was made to the owners. The owners said they
were getting other offers on the property and asked if the
village wanted to buy the whole property. Therefore, what
might be an acceptable price was discussed. If the
village wanted the field, it became evident that the whole
property would have to be purchased. The cost of this
would be approximately $2.4-2.5M with the field being
donated. With these figures, the following proposal was
derived.
Two (2) parcels, 32 acres are in the front parcel, 20
acres are on the rear parcel. $2.4 M was suggested for
the 20 acre rear parcel and the building; 32 acres would
be donated to the village by the Longabergers. $430,000
in green space money would be used to keep development
from occurring in the area. At each step along the way
what was happening was reported to Council. In June, the
township was given a proposal to consider. On July 17,
2002, Council acted to include sharing the costs with the
township.
Therefore, Ordinance No. 08-02 commits to purchase 20
acres & the buildings;
Ordinance No. 09-02 accepts the donation of the 32 acre
field in the front of the property; and Ordinance No. 10-
02 sells part of the front field to the township in order
to obtain the contribution of green space monies and to
subsequently share in the maintenance costs of the field.
This can be accomplished by expending $500,000 in capital
reserves and borrow $1.47M in/notes with current interest
rates at 1/6 to 1.25%
Councilmember Moore believes that in the long term the
purchase will clearly be in the best interest of the
village, the township and the schools. The reasons are:
Development pressure (PUD zoning = 48+ new homes), High
probability of development, Willing seller, Location,
Scenic view, Historic value, Green space needs on the East
side of Village, Senior needs, Art recreation, Meeting and
office space, Easy accessibility in village could provide
for additional tourism
With every new house with a child comes a loss to our
schools. Our school board says it costs $7400 a year to
educate one child. $3900 per house on average is what is
paid to schools with the property tax rollbacks. There
are two (2) kids, on average in each home. It will cost
more to educate than to preserve the land (net cost to
schools each year $355,000+). That kind of intense
residential growth must be limited to protect our
schools. The community has said this over and over again.
The proposed uses on the property include: Manor house –
11,000 sq. ft., Indoor tennis building; Pool equipment
building; Pool guest building; Laundry building; Play
house and spring house; Barn. Vice Mayor Moore even
wondered whether or not the field could be used as a
walking path? The mansion could serve as an art gallery
or studio and the village could look for a partner to
lease space. And she suggested fees could be charged to
stage events in or on the property,
Renovation costs could be offset in other ways.
Lancaster, Ohio recently did this with the Skeeters
Mansion. The Ohio Arts and Sports Facility Commission
gave them $1.5M to assist in the renovations of the
mansion.
Volleyball, aerobics, etc., could be held in the other
buildings. A 20-yard pool would work for aerobics, and/or
a lap pool. The Ohio Nature Works Program, the village,
the township, private funds and or grants, etc., could be
generated along with user fees. These are by no means an
exhaustive list. These ideas demonstrate that there are
needs and uses for this property. Comments about the
structural report followed.
Joe Hickman had Melvin Ree do an inspection of the
property and found that it was in sound condition.
Hickman said Mr. Ree happened to have prior history with
the Bryn Du mansion. He knew it when Sally Jones owned
the property. The condition is about the same although it
will need a fair amount of work.
Operating costs would mostly be for lawn maintenance and
snow removal, utilities, insurance, building repairs and
maintenance. Additional amounts will depend on type of
use Council determines the property will have. It will
cost a lot to keep the status quo. Village staff found
that it cost about $11,000 a year in gas and electric
costs. The buildings are kept at 55 degrees year-round.
The insurance carrier says it will cost the village an
additional $8,000 per year to insure the property. All
the buildings are sound and need only minor repairs.
Hickman suggested that Councilmembers look at the current
annual maintenance and repair costs of $14,000 for the
8,000+ sq. ft. office buildings. The 11,000 sq. ft. of
the mansion also includes the attic and basement space.
The actual usable rooms are only about 7,000 sq. ft.
Council will have to examine the need for costs based on
types of use. Vice Mayor Moore presented pictures during
her presentation that were taken on the tour of the home.
The first floor main rooms showed one area where it has
been torn down to the bare walls and pipes replaced while
some areas were lovely. Some showed need for paint. The
back lawn, inside the laundry building, the outbuilding in
front of the barn; the pool; the pool equipment building,
clay tennis courts; indoor tennis facility; front
driveway; parking lot (lot of parking on site more than
Vice Mayor Moore expected and room to expand parking if
needed).
Moore concluded by thanking everyone for their comments
and ideas, not just tonight but for the past several weeks
and years that the property had been discussed. She hopes
that the front porch is where the village will celebrate
their bicentennial celebration in three (3) years.
Mayor McGowan thanked Vice Mayor Moore for the work that
went into the proposal. He said a number of issues
remained to be addressed in the long run but that the
slide presentation provided a nice representation of the
whole property.
Discussion:
Councilmember Crais asked whether or not the purchase
contract in Exhibit A, mentioned restrictive covenants
that might be located in the deed office and if so, where
might those be? Law Director Crites said that the Village
does not have a copy of any restrictive covenants at this
time but are attempting to use this as the legal
description of the property. Councilmember Crais
redirected his questions to Vice Mayor Moore. Moore
responded that there were restrictive covenants with
respect to Bryn Du estates.
Crais also asked whether or not there were any notes
discussing Paragraph 5. Law Director Crites stated that
the contract was a 5-D standard contract. One of the
things he would recommend is that it be considered under
an environmental report and to be included in paragraph
one (1) in the last two sentences of the contract. Council
is supposed to receive any prior environmental reports.
It is a contingency as part of the contract.
Councilmember Moore also responded saying that the village
would conduct its own environmental inspection.
Councilmember Crais recalls the purchase price being $2.1M
not $2.4M, and expressed concern with all the “whereases”
in the contract…and the memorandum of
understanding between the village and the township with
regard to green spacemonies. He believes Council should
add this to the language. Vice Mayor Moore says there
would be no problem adding clarifying language to address
Councilmember Crais’s concerns as those monies would have
specific strings attached.
Councilmember Crais said his general comments were more
about the lack of information on the cost to make the
needed repairs to the buildings. He’s concerned Council
might be buying something that requires a lot of money and
don’t even have a range of what that might be. Finally,
Mr. Crais has heard a number of times that there is a
buyer lurking in the corridor ready to purchase the
property from the village. Does anyone know about this?
He said that we could let a potential buyer purchase the
mansion and still benefit from the property around the
buildings.
Councilmember Robertson said that there are so many
questions she has about the project. She wanted to know
which part of the field could be bought with green space
monies. Councilmember Moore responded the green space
monies could be used to purchase the property that fronts
Newark-Granville Road. Robertson said she recalled
Council-having discussions in the past to preserving all
of the space. Moore said if the township were to take 2/3
of the facility/area, it would only take a 2/3 levy to
improve the project bids. If the township takes 2/3 they
will have to pay to maintain 2/3rds. With this
information, Moore favors preserving all of it. Robertson
again asked who Moore might forsee overseeing the
management of the building, etc. Moore responded it could
be a variety depending on the use of the property.
Mayor McGowan said the Recreation Commission told him they
were enthusiastic about the Village purchasing the
property. McGowan says Council could consider appointing
a committee to oversee this and similar type projects.
Councilmember Robertson asked the Mayor whether or not he
could forsee establishing a commission or a group to
oversee the mansion? Councilmember Moore responded that
she would initially establish a group to determine uses of
the property. Then how it is used will ultimately dictate
who will manage it. Nothing in the law states that the
village or the township will always manage the property.
Councilmember Robertson asked what budget departmental
services such as fire, would come out of village funds
each year. Moore said the village would only pay interest
the first year. Robertson asked how much that would be.
Moore responded $30,000. Robertson asked about expenses
after that and Moore responded that the village could roll
over these costs into bonds or notes. For 25 year bonds
at current rates, it would cost the village $100,000-
105,000 if there was a pay down on the principle in place.
Robertson asked what the cost of utilities and insurance
on top of the rest would be each year. Moore said that
she’s only looked at what it will take to maintain the
property, which is what was outlined previously in my
presentation. Robertson asked if all costs were added
together what the most per year would be? Moore asked for
clarification whether or not Robertson meant to include
Prinicipal and Interest costs. Moore said it would be
less for notes that have a short-term interest rate and no
required pay down on the principal. She restated that
she again believed $100,000-105,000 per year would be the
most it would cost plus maintenance costs.
Councilmember Robertson stated she favors buying Bryn Du.
As the pool there is very small, she asked what it could
it be used for? Moore responded Aqua-aerobics, parents
with small kids, etc. or it may not be the pool we want to
keep, or may want to expand.
Councilmember Robertson asked for clarification, did
Council want to buy the mansion then spend a year deciding
what Council will want to do with it? Moore said yes, the
mansion should be purchased then council should take some
time to decide what to do with it. There are some things
that are “need” things Council has been talking about. A
senior center; art facility, recreation facility, etc.
This place has a lot of those things without having to
build them new. We need to closely look to see if the
facility will meet the needs the way we think they will.
Once we find out what they cost, maybe we won’t want those
things. A committee looking at this will be important.
Councilmember Moore said we have a seller interested in
selling now. Robertson said really she really don’t
favor having the village offices there and does not
support relocating the library.
Mayor McGowan said he does not think Council can put a
stipulation on buying without the time to really know what
it is they need or want to do. Personally, McGowan doesn’t
think that the property will be together next year. He
thinks a lot of the decisions can be made later.
Councilmember Robertson said she would not vote for
the ‘88 General Assessment if Council has in mind to move
the current Council out to Bryu Du. Councilmember Main
stated, for the record, that he would not support it
either if that were the case. Councilmember Moore said
Council did know the property is a PUD. It has sewer and
water. She reminded Council how fast the houses were
constructed on either side of it and says it will be what
will happen again. Mayor McGowan said in the next 10
years will bring what the last 10 years in building
brought to the area. He thinks the numbers Moore has
provided, about $132,000 each year, is fairly correct, in
terms of costs to the village.
Councilmember Main reminded Council about the tour
of Bryn Du again where it was viewed as a tremendous
opportunity. Another way of looking at is to say there is
a mess and a lot to do. Speculating on maintenance costs
at this point in time is just mere speculation because
they are going to depend greatly on what Council decides
to do to the property, mansion, and other buildings. Main
said that both strut engineers have said it is in good
condition—structurally sound. He instructed Council how
important it was to keep this in mind. Also the building
inspector from Newark did not find any particular
problems. Main asked Hickman to verify his recollection.
Hickman said the roof was rated good to very good;
foundation-super; windows-very very good (wood sash) and
there is a new steam heat system no more that two (2)
years old with heat pumps to cool it that are only ten
(10) years old. The inspector said the mansion has a lot
of good solid pieces to it. Whatever Council does with
the mansion—use or sell—it is a really good sound piece to
begin with.
Councilmember Bellman said he’s been a supporter of
considering the mansion very carefully. It’s historic
value, minus the axe to chew with schools—it was good to
find that is a non-issue; purchasing the mansion and green
space would save the schools in the long run. Bellman
said he is open to the idea that Council open something in
the community. He talked about what happened in
Cincinnati where something similar was accomplished by
saving an old building. Ultimately it became the natural
history museum. Sometimes when building can be purchased,
a community preserves it without quite knowing what its
use will ultimately be. Bryn Du could be the same. He
also commended Councilmember Moore for doing a great
analysis of the property – which was a lot more than he
expected in such a short period of time. Moore’s
presentation answered some of his questions about
operating costs, etc., but there is the risk that if
Council does not lock into an interest rate when they are
low the village could lose money. Bellman recommended
further analysis on a few things. He recommended council
come up with strong ideas on what is needed and run them
past some people that would know what might or might not
be feasible. Personally Bellman thinks the mansion would
be a great recreation area – but after talking to someone
he found that it’s just not workable without costs getting
out of line pretty quickly. He thinks Council needs to
appoint a Task Force similar to what was formed for the
Spring Valley Pool. He recommended the types of people on
the Task Force be a landscape architect such as Keith
Myers; a construction person to eyeball to tell us what
Council can do and how Council can use the buildings; and,
finally a business person to look at whether the uses
are “pie in the sky” or feasible.
Councilmember Crais agreed with Councilmember Bellman’s
comments and looks forward to voting in the affirmative.
He does not think tonight is the night to do so with so
may questions at the end raised. He wants to make sure
that a few more “t’s” are crossed and “I’s” are dotted.
Crais does not want this on a slow track, but doesn’t want
it to move too quickly, either.
Mayor McGowan said time is of the essence. If Council
doesn’t act, he warned, he doesn’t think the mansion will
be there tomorrow. If the community decides six (6) months
from now they don’t want it they’re not losing anything.
There is potential, as Councilmember Moore pointed out,
for grant money, etc. McGowan is not sure the seller will
wait around for village Council to decide. If Council
appoints a Committee to make decisions about the property –
then the village will have options. He does not think
Council will have any opportunity to have any say about
the property if something isn’t done about it tonight.
Councilmember Bellman said if Council does their yearly
analysis and find it cannot use the rear property because
of cost prohibitions, can the rear property be sold and if
so – what would the lowest price the village could expect
to get for it? The Mayor said any portion of the
property might go for a higher price because someone would
be mowing that front lawn for perpetuity!
Councilmember Bellman asked if $2M was at risk if Council
decides the rear property cannot be used. The Mayor
answered that he was not a real estate person but asked
Council to allow him to give an – architects and others
can tell the village whether or not it can use the
buildings and properties or not. He did talk to an
architect who said the village couldn’t do some things
with a private property. But that would be only a bottom
line risk if the village decided they wanted to sell it.
Councilmember Main said the County appraisal was $2.1 and
the mansion owners have had offers of up to $1.3 just for
the mansion but he thinks it is worth more than that.
Councilmember Bellman asked if there was a buyer that will
buy it? And will we find that kind of buyer on resale?
Main said there are houses for sale in the community right
now for 700,000-900,000 that isn’t nearly a nice as this
property. It probably won’t cost as much to bring the
property up to a “home” than it would other things like
Council is talking about. He doesn’t think that is a
serious enough problem to stall. He thinks Council will
always have the out to sell the property. He doesn’t
think that this is a situation where the village will
be “snookered” in any way. Bottom line, when he went on
the tour he was very concerned about the condition of the
buildings. But, the reality is this is not about
buildings, it is about acquiring the green space and
Council will deal with the other part at a later time.
Councilmember Robertson said that Council has talked about
a Task Force to deliberate what will be done about the
mansion. She proposed a commission to have permanent
authority over management of the mansion—to place in
language that the commission will determine the uses of
the facility for its lifetime. Mayor McGowan explained
that is what he had in mind for the Task Force. Robertson
responded that in thinking about other large properties
like Bryn Du such as private foundations, etc., they don’t
decide once and for all what to do about a property – they
make decisions based on what happens in society—
culturally, etc.. Bryn Du will always be vital to the
Granville community. Councilmember Moore agreed she could
see an advisory board, such as this perhaps.
Councilmember Robertson stressed It would be vital to have
the language she proposes because she doesn’t think a task
force will determine what to do with the property a
hundred (100) years now. Council should craft language
that is somewhat different and have a vision to set
something into motion that perpetuates itself. Robinson
asked to see some of that written into the ordinance.
Main asked if Robinson wanted this language as part of the
purchase ordinance and Robinson responded yes, she did.
Main answered he saw this type of language as a second
(2nd) step. Robinson asked for assurance that this will
happen. Main said that what happens is that when such
purchases are made you just get in the ring and decide,
the community decides. Robinson explained that Council
will be responsible to place language that will require us
to keep deciding. Moore said she didn’t have a problem
with that. Main said that while Robinson’s proposal makes
a lot of sense, he doesn’t think it makes a lot of sense
to put it into part of the purchase ordinance. Robinson
said if Council does do it the community will be given the
sense that Bryn Du is theirs and not purchased in narrow
interests that might be controlling it at the time.
Councilmember Moore suggested if this proposal passes with
Robinson offering a resolution following the adoption of
the ordinance would that suffice. Robinson responded that
some of her vote would be based on whether or not this
language will be in the purchase ordinance although she
said she did not have a specific amendment at the present
time. Mayor McGowan said he is in favor of it, too, but
not for tonight.
Councilmember Bellman called the Ordinance No. 10-02 into
question. If there is an emergency to do “A” & “B” why is
an emergency needed to pass “C” until Council has the
opportunity to have their ideas congeal a bit more. Once
Council has a bit more idea where it’s might be heading is
when we should do it. Main strongly disagreed. He said
these three things go hand in hand. It’s part of a deal.
If Council adopts the first two and jerk around the
township trustees, Council is not being upfront. Bellman
said he did not know where Main was getting the
language, “jerk them around,” until Council has some
better idea what it wants to do with the property.
Council has talked tonight about the need for more
flexibility, more acres, less acres. Since there is
already some flexibility in there, until Council has at
least a guesstimate (maybe a year to finalize it with some
people that Council trusts) until it’s known--Bellman
doesn’t want to get into the scene of pushing the
ordinance right now.
Mayor McGowan asked how the maintenance up to 75% of the
lawn would be figured Bellman asked whether or not this
would be taking more or less to the village’s advantage or
not?
Ordinance No. 08-02 - A Roll call vote yielded five (5)
yes votes (McGowan, Moore, Main, Bellman & Hartfield), and
two (2) abstentions (Robertson, Crais). Ordinance No. 08-
02 is adopted.
Ordinance No. 09-02 - A Roll call vote yielded five (5)
yes votes (McGowan, Moore, Main, Bellman, Hartfield &
Robertson), and one (1) abstention (Crais). Ordinance No.
09-02 is adopted.
Ordinance No. 10-02 - A Roll call vote yielded four (4)
yes votes (McGowan, Moore, Main, &Hartfield), one (1) no
(Crais), and two (2) abstention (Bellman, Robertson).
Ordinance No. 10-02 failed.
MINUTES
Regularly Scheduled Meeting of July 10, 2002
Councilmember Crais moved to accept the amended minutes.
He stated they indicate a precise record; second by
Councilmember Main. Motion carried, 7-0
Regularly Scheduled Meeting of July 17, 2002
Councilmember Crais moved to accept the minutes as
submitted; second by Councilmember Moore. Motion
carried, 7-0
COMMITTEE REPORTS
Economic Development Committee (Crais, Moore, Robertson)
No Report
Finance Liaison (Moore)
No Report
Granville Foundation (Main)
No Report
JEDD (Bellman, Crais)
No Report
Newark/Granville Committee (Bellman, Main)
No Report
Personnel (Hartfield, McGowan, Robertson)
No Report
Planning Committee (Main)
Mayor McGowan reported on the Planning Commission
Meeting: There were 2 - 2 votes. Council we will be
hearing back from there. It was enlightening to sit there
for three (3) hours. Councilmember Main commented he had
diligently read the few papers he had seen reporting on
the Commission meeting.
Recreation Commission (McGowan)
Mayor McGowan stated he had reported already on the soccer
field. Early enrollment is happening so they want to sign
up for fall activities and have folks sign up in the next
week.
Senior Citizen Committee (Moore, Robertson)
No Report
Strategic Land Acquisition Committee (Bellman, Crais,
Moore)
No Report
Street Light Committee (McGowan)
No Report
Streets/Sidewalks/Utilities Committee (Bellman, Hartfield,
McGowan)
No Report.
Tree & Landscape Committee (Moore)
No Report
Union Cemetery Board (Main)
No Report.
OTHER COUNCIL MATTERS
Kendal at Granville - Sewer Easement update
Mayor McGowan noted that the Manager is still working of
obtaining easements.
Comprehensive Plan:
No discussion scheduled.
Cherry Valley Road Update
Manager Hickman informed Council that he is making a
request to extend the deadline for completion of the
project to July 1, 2003. He intents to bring a full
report to Council on August 21st.
Owens-Corning Rededication
They spent time and money to use that facility with its
583 acres and some buildings looking at to lease or sell
the property with some similar type businesses or for
office space or use it entirely for something else. Owens
is committed to do something with that property which
could be a very beneficial thing with the tax base. There
is potential for that in the future.
Deputy Clerk of Council
Mr. Hickman reminded Council that it was their decision to
appoint the Clerk of Council. He introduced Susan Dean
Byrnes who was staffing the meeting and asked Council to
let him know if he needed to do anything further.
MEETING ANNOUNCEMENTS
Aug 12 – Planning Commission (7:30pm)
Aug 13 – Tree & Landscape (7pm)
Aug 21 – Village Council (7:30pm)
Aug 26 – Planning Commission (7:30pm)
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor McGowan moved to adjourn the meeting at 10:37pm.
Seconded by Councilmember Main. Motion carried, 7-0.
Meeting adjourned.
Submitted by Susan Dean Byrnes
Monday, January 23, 2012 at 11:22AM