Granville Community Calendar

Council Minutes 8/19/98


 Mayor Bellman convened the meeting at 7:33p.m. 


Those responding to the roll call were: Vice Mayor McGowan Councilmember Rader Councilmember Lucier Mayor Bellman Councilmember Robertson Law Director Hurst Councilmember Wernet Manager Hickman COUNCIL VACANCY APPOINTMENT

 Vote #1 - Carl Wilkenfeld - 3 votes Lisa Minklei - 3 votes

 Vote #2 - Carl Wilkenfeld - 3 votes Lisa Minklei - 3 votes

 Vote #3 - Carl Wilkenfeld - 3 votes Lisa Minklei - 3 votes

 Voice Vote : Lucier - Carl Wilkenfeld Robertson - Carl Wilkenfeld Wernet - Lisa Minklei Rader - Lisa Minklei McGowan - Carl Wilkenfeld Bellman - Lisa Minklei Vice Mayor McGowan made a motion to have one more vote and, if unsuccessful, choose a candidate at a later date. Councilmember Lucier second. Motion carried.

 Voice Vote: Lucier - Carl Wilkenfeld Robertson - Carl Wilkenfeld Wernet - Lisa Minklei Rader - Lisa Minklei McGowan - Carl Wilkenfeld Bellman - Lisa Minklei

 Councilmember Wernet made a motion to vote again tonight, first by narrowing the candidate list down to two, then voting for one candidate. Councilmember Lucier second. Motion carried.

 Voice Vote: Bellman - Lisa Minklei McGowan - James Jump Rader - Lisa Minklei Wernet - Lisa Minklei Robertson - Lisa Minklei Lucier - Lisa Minklei

############# Following is a Transcript of: Granville Village Council Meeting August 19, 1998 Portion of meeting pertaining to appointment of Council Vacancy. ___________________ Bellman: Okay, well the first item on the agenda tonight is the council vacancy appointment. As all of you know, Dan Freytag had resigned two or three weeks ago and this is the last meeting of which, at least the last regularly scheduled meeting in which we could make this appointment. The appointment has to be made within 30 days and uh first of all I just want to make sure everybody new at least who was on the list. Uh we have Jim Jump, Lisa Minklei, Maxine Montgomery, Candi Moore, uh Brian Van Winkle is on this ballot but Joe you told me that he has called in since and….

Hickman: He withdrew this afternoon.

Bellman: He withdrew his name I suppose he, uh, whatever reason, uh, Carl Wilkenfeld, and one that’s not on the ballot it is Troy Reed but I know all of us have received a letter but Troy I don’t believe you sent a letter to Joe, uh, uh, that, that, we, we can certainly write that name in and ???????? the ballots. Tonight, you know, there certainly isn’t any need for anybody to any of the candidates to say anything but I think certainly we’d give anybody that opportunity if you would like to say something and don’t feel pressured or don’t feel like you know it gets too long or anything like that (laughter). The shorter the better (laughter), you’d probably get more votes (laughter) but anyway and then also I would think that if anybody in the audience has comments before our voting then that we’d certainly take those too. But first I will open it up to any of the candidates Do you want to say anything, but again you don’t have too. Don’t feel pressured. Would any of the candidates like to say anything? No, okay anybody else? No other comments? Yes sir, oh I’m sorry, and Charlie and everybody else, for Bev’s sake and she’s looking down and if you say your name clearly and your address I think that’s appropriate.

Charlie Metzger: 81 Maplewood Drive, one of those township people. So but I just noticed that Lisa I just heard her name was up for consideration. As a co-worker on the Comprehensive Plan Review, we’ve spent oh a couple years together (laughter)

Wernet: that was the best five years of our lives, wasn’t it Charlie (laughter).

Metzger: And I, I’d just like report that I have seen uh with Lisa and the others, I found her to be very bright, efficient person with a strong attitude toward the principles and ideas that she uh, sponsors, but she’s reasonable and will listen to evaluate the inaudible……, so it’s my evaluation of my co-worker.

Bellman: Thank you Charlie. Any body else? No other comments. Okay, uh what we’ll do is that since we have so many candidates, uh, I thought what we would do is uh do an initial vote simply to target and kind of limit the list to those that are most likely too uh receive, we need four votes right? Rufus at least four.

Rufus: Correct.

Bellman: And so in that regard what I’d ask everybody to do is uh, you have your ballots here, of course write Troy’s name down and everybody choose their top three candidates. We’ll tally this up and whoever gets at least four or more votes, whether that’s one or two or three or four, however we look out, uh those would be the ones that we would go to the next round and actually do the voting. Yes, Matt.

McGowan: I would like to make a comment before I vote. Again, I think all the candidates are probably strong candidates and would do a excellent job, uh, I’ve been in one of the positions one of the candidates has, is in tonight where the person ran in the election, uh less than a year ago, and in this particular case actually received more votes than I did and I didn’t get the appointment when I applied and I was the next vote getter. However for the 633 people who voted for Carl who came within the 11 votes of getting elected and from my understanding won three of the four precincts as a council person, I think I owe it to the public to cast my vote for Carl in the first choice because again so many people in the community did vote for him when he did run for that position.

Bellman: Okay.

Lucier: I just have a clarification question, do you want us to rank people or simply check mark next to people.

Bellman: You can just check, because it really doesn’t matter because we are just kind of focusing on the ???? we are going to be choosing from. And then in the next vote everybody does their first vote.

Lucier: Okay, thank you. *************

Bellman: Okay. People uh it was really pretty well spread out, uh there are two people that have received at least four votes and that would be Lisa Minklei and Carl Wilkenfeld so I guess right now we would be focusing on those two candidates.

McGowan: Just out of curiosity do you want to say the other votes or…

Bellman: Well, uh you know for anybody that wants to come up afterwards I’d be happy to, but, uh again I think it’s important just to show who, who placed the most in the four or more right now. Okay, so I guess we enter the second round now, and this would be the one vote.

************* Bellman: Okay, well that makes it difficult now doesn’t it? Uh, what we have is actually a uh a three, three tie for Carl and for Lisa uh, do you want to do another round or do you want to, how do you want to handle this? Do you want to talk, do you want to break for a second and think about it or what?

Lucier: Maybe we could ask each of the of these two candidates to make a statement or is that, would you be willing, Lisa would you feel comfortable? Would that help?

Bellman: Oh that’s fine, that’s fine. Carl?

Wilkenfeld: I have no flaming desire to go first. But if you’d like me to I will.

Bellman: I don’t want to put anyone on the spot, I know Barb’s suggestion if you had a comment…

Lucier: I don’t care who goes first, go ahead.

Wernet: I don’t have a coin or I’d toss it…

Wilkenfeld: It’s okay, I’ll go first. First let me thank you folks for bringing me this far. We’ve come a long way. Uh, there’s still a lot of work to be done. Uh, I’d like to crack the system by saying that Lisa is an excellent candidate. She is highly intelligent, she’s talented, she’s sincere, we share a lot of the same concerns. So, um, I don’t think that anything’s going to fall off the face of the earth inaudible. There are two things that I, I believe that I bring that um are unique., um and these are very real work kinds of things. I struggle with this decision to bring myself to this point desperately. Um, I was very torn about doing this. Um, I uh, was, I took time to think about it, to try to understand how I felt about it, and I reached down to a lot of people who were close to me and um to a person and to my surprise they told me, "Carl you have no choice". And the two reasons they gave me was, were, you are the most experienced, you’ve got time in as an accurate citizen, you’ve got time in on the Rapid Response, uh the Suburban Business District, which I worked in on that whole process, and you’ve got time on the Planning Commission, and um, I’ve been doing that for about two years, and people tell me, a lot of you folks right here tell me that I’m doing a good job, and I appreciate that. The other thing that was said to me was, the thing that really made a difference was, they said "Carl you have the responsibility to the 633 people that voted for you to continue what they wanted. Now we had a situation here where we have the same kind of seat that we had, when Ben and I ran, and we ran a, I thought really good clean campaign, we were kind to each other all the time, and Ben knows the day after the election, I called him, I congratulated him, and I thank him, didn’t I Ben for that campaign. Um, not only do I think I have the responsibility, I think that in light of what’s been said and in light of (inaudible) most of the people sitting here, is that we want to be a council above and for and by the people, and, if you put me in the seat, what you are saying to the other half of the 1277 people who voted, is yes, we accept you too. We are going to follow your wishes also, and that choice is not mine to make. But I wanted to, I wanted to bring you to that point on how I got to that point. And what you actions here today are going to say to the other half of the people who voted in the election and I think it’s critical to respond to those people in a positive way, if you really believe you want to help mend this community. So, that’s all I’m want to say.

Bellman: Lisa?

Minklei: Uh, I guess, you know, I agree Carl would be person for council and he was involved in some of the Comprehensive Plan plus we worked together um, I guess I didn’t realize or remember all this history about the last election or appointment. Um, my own interest in doing this is that I, actually had a great time doing the Comprehensive Plan, it was very satisfying, uh, I learned a lot about the community and learned a lot about people that I was (inaudible) and ways that we could work together. On the Open Space Committee, I worked with the Township and found that was really very helpful, and you know, working the Township and Village together (inaudible), and discovered how much we could really accomplish working together. Um, I have a real passion to see the Comprehensive Plan goals and objectives carried out after working so hard on it, meeting all the people in open meetings when we talked about the Suburban Business District and the Planned Commercial District, uh, you know there are a lot of good ideas that got thrown out in those meetings that you know didn’t make it in the plan but they are still floating around out there and there are still people who want to be heard that I would just like to see all that come to some kind of, you know, after process put into ordinances or try to work together to, the Village and Township work together to figure out some of the problems that are facing us right now. Uh, and I think Carl’s right, you know you’re not going to do wrong whoever you pick, but I would like to have the opportunity to keep on working for the community.



 (8/19/98 Meeting Minutes continued- page 2)

Bellman: Okay, thank you. Does anybody have any questions for the candidates? I suppose do another round? Okay.

****************** Bellman: Okay, we’re back to three votes, three votes. Um, do you want to do one more vote then…

McGowan: Could I just ask a question for each candidate? Carl would you stay on Planning Commission if you did not get this..position I mean cause right now your still on Planning Commission, cause I would ask Lisa the same question, if she did not get this and you got it, would she be interested in, you know, the Planning Commission, in Carl’s seat, cause if Carl would get it, there is an open seat on Planning Commission. I mean, so you know both individuals could be involved in the community and I’m not trying to say, you know, one is different than the other, but I mean there is two seats that we’re talking about tonight, because if Carl gets this seat, uh then there’s a planning opening. If Carl doesn’t get it then I would assume you still would be on the Planning Commission. Correct, Carl?

Wilkenfeld: At this point I might be ( inaudible)

McGowan: An I didn’t know if Lisa had an opinion, if you didn’t get this seat would you be interested in being on the Planning Commission, in replacing Carl’s open seat, which again, Council would appoint that person. And you don’t have to answer if you don’t want, I just was curious if there would be another possibility to be involved in the community.

Minklei: Well, I hadn’t thought about it. Um, you know, I would think about it.

Wernet: So are we going to have another vote or what?

Bellman: Yeah, why don’t we do one more vote and uh hopefully we’ll have a direction here and if not we’ll take a short recess here.

************** Bellman: Okay, uh we’re back to three, three, and what I’m going to do is I’m going to recommend that we take a short five or ten minute recess. Just take a little time to think amongst ourselves and if anybody has any thoughts, uh when we get back, of how to resolve it or if we want to hear anything more from the candidates, or anybody else or anything else, and uh, yeah maybe we could ….. So why don’t we take a five or ten minute recess and come back and see where it goes. 

Return from recess: 

Note: prior to tape being turned on, Councilmember Lucier requested a voice vote so that everyone’s vote would be recorded for the record. 

Havens: (tape begins) relationships more educated like Newark for instance, maybe this Keny problem wouldn’t have hit us in the head had we had a better working relationship with Newark at the time. Same thing with our school board, think about ourselves interacting with the Township, think of the struggle we went through trying to debate the merger and those kinds of things. So, that would be my two cents worth, and I’m asking you to keep an open mind about naming that type of a person to Council at least from the Trustees perspective. Thank you.

Bellman: Okay, let’s.

I’ll say that I think there was an election…

Bellman: I’m sorry…

Childers: My name is Donna Childers, I live on N. Granger Street, and um there are a lot of people including me that have followed Councils work over time and the last election was a very important election to this community. Those of us, many of us had been quite upset with the lack of responsiveness to the citizenry. And I think that uh that so many people turning out to vote and the kind of vote that took place last time was representative of the people, not just the people here, um, and a lot of issues are on our agenda, obviously a lot of things related to that development being a major issue, but other things as well, and we’re very interested about that and, and there were very find candidates nominated. I, you know, obviously it puts all of you in a very difficult position but you’re down to two candidates, both have done a great service, but Carl was and in my view Carl was the person that put himself out earlier to be elected. He went around talking to a lot of people. I think he has the right skills of being open to different ideas, and being the kind of person that can work with lots of people. But he also is a person that has a certain position on making Granville open to business communities but also helping to preserve what we love about Granville. And I think that that should be also a major consideration. The kind of families we want to raise here and the kinds of life we want to live, and I wholeheartedly wanted, I know many other people support Carl, and, and, you know, six hundred and… inaudible.

Bellman: Okay. Eloise. State you name and….

DeZwarte: Yes, Eloise DeZwarte, 338 College Street, I have a concern that is not just now but was with the former Village Council. Is there an inherent conflict of interest between being a Realtor and being, working with developers on the Village Council.

Bellman: I’m not sure…. Well just a second…. We’re looking for comments… I’m sorry are you asking a question…

DeZwarte: I am.

Bellman: And who are you asking that question of? The general audience, or…, anybody who wants to answer that? I’m not understanding.

DeZwarte: Anyone who wants to answer that.

Bellman: Okay, and this is, is, your done with those comments then or was there another… okay. I’ll open it up now to anybody that would want to answer that or have a comment.

Minklei: I guess my answer would be um, as a Realtor I have to abide by a strict code of professional ethics to prepare to, you know, dealing on behalf of clients and not dealing with myself. As an attorney, I have taken the oath for the state of Ohio that I have to do right by my clients and my personal loyalties is to my clients, that I don’t use information that I’ve learned from my clients to, you know, ???? profit. Um, and work I’ve done for colleges as a fund-raiser, I acquire so much confidential information about people, of all beings of wealth and all that, that, you know, I understand, you know, I would never use for my own self or my own gain, and you know, as a member of council, Granville would be my client, I am working on behalf of Granville. I mean it’s just ?????, I would not use anything ??????? for my own gain. I feel that very strongly and, you know, I’ve taken I don’t know how many oaths swearing to that and I mean I believe in it myself.

Bellman: Sure, Rufus.

Hurst: The direct answer to your question as to whether or not there is an inherent conflict, is that there is not. That does not suggest for one moment that whether you are a Realtor or not that on occasion, because everyone sitting at this table has other uh, business or professional interests. That does not mean for one moment that there aren’t occasionally issues that come before this body where an individual sitting on this council does not feel obliged or obligated to refrain from discussion on that issue, either because of an actual conflict of interest or because of a perceived conflict of interest or impropriety. But is there an inherent conflict because of ones status as a um, real estate professional, and also a Councilmember - no. This council has had that type of person before and they have done marvelous jobs with no conflicts.

Bellman: Okay, anybody other… Carl had his hand up I think before Connie…Carl.

Wilkenfeld: Yeah, I’m, I’m, surprised. I’m shocked. I put my name into the Village Council. Not to the Township Council. I’m shocked. I didn’t put my name in for the Township Council, I ran for the Village Council, I put up my name to the Village Council. And I, I also I, I, feel uh, attacked. Um, the idea that I can’t work with people I’ve worked with almost every single one of you here, every single one of you, some of you I’ve worked hard with to get elected. Some of you I’ve worked as a citizen sitting here when you were sitting un, un, unprotected, and didn’t have any citizens coming into help you with your issues. This is not about the Township, this is about the Village. And I would ask Keith Myers whom I’ve worked with for nearly two years on the Planning Commission, if I’ve every acted in one iota, in one way, in one incident, in appropriately or unfairly, or even unkindly to a single person that I’ve (inaudible). And, and, and, I’m, I’m, I’m really shocked.

Bellman: Okay. Connie.

Barsky: What I wanted to say was that I think there are two areas…

Bellman: Oh, I’m sorry, I’m making everybody…

Barsky: Constance Barsky. I think there are two candidates. 22 E. Elm. Um, Lisa worked very hard on the Comprehensive Review Plan and is very committed to that, and Carl has worked very committed to the Planning Commission. And I think, in spite of the huge perspectives, I think there is a degree of emotion, uh, as Carl just said I give you an example of his great commitment to the Village and it may be, it may be more of a voice of um, in some ways confrontation when there are issues that need to be felt strongly about, that the Council needs to address. And Lisa provides an example of someone who’s worked also on the Comprehensive Plan and also feels very strongly and uh, I think the question may come down to your consideration from the way the voters may have stood before and where we stand now. Because I think both candidates are exceptional.

Bellman: Okay, anybody else. Jim.

Jump: Yeah, I’d like….

Bellman: Jim could you…

Jump: Oh Jim Jump, 143 Thresher Street. I’m not much of a diplomat so it’s just as well that I’m not in the running. I would just suggest you look at these candidates on their basis of their records and their strengths and forget about public relations. Yeah it’s nice to have good relations with the township and the school board and everybody else, but, uh, in my minds that’s definitely secondary. Both of these people have done good service over the past couple of years and ???? for all I know, but I know at least that (inaudible).

Bellman: Okay. Dorothy. You have to state your name and your address.

Garrett: Dorothy Garrett, 45 Donald Ross Drive. This is more of a question and I have no opinion one way or the other about either of the candidates. I’m not for or against either of them. Uh, but it was mentioned that Carl garnered six hundred and some votes which ?????, but wasn’t he running against, in the two man race, and therefore in the other race which included uh Barb and Lyn, uh, he was not garnered that race.


Garrett: It’s my understanding that maybe Maxine came in third if your talking about ???? one, two, three, so if your wondering about who ran forth in the larger four year term, then Maxine was involved because it sounds like, uh to somebody sitting uninitiated that Carl came in forth in the bigger race. As it was he came in second….

McGowan: I will somewhat clarify that. Carl came within eleven votes when he ran one on one against Ben. Maxine was almost 200 votes behind the forth. She wasn’t a close, you know.

Garrett: Yeah, I know there was a big discrepancy and I’m not here promoting that you should have considered Maxine or I would have spoken earlier, but I’m just saying, you know, let’s get this in perspective when your dealing with, with five or six people running for three offices, you distribution is going to be quite different than it is (inaudible)

McGowan: Statistically, usually it would be. I’m just going to interject there, but they get to vote for three candidates too, so that when there’s five candidates or six, so you’ve got three votes compared to one vote, so I mean there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of, you know, you can’t really…

Garrett: That’s what I’m saying…

Bellman: Matt, Matt, why don’t you let Dorothy talk and then you can make your point. We don’t want to get into….

Garrett: I guess what the point was, really should that be a consideration. And I know we’ve gone through this before in previous times when we have had to appoint somebody, we did the person who came third, the vote getter, but I really, what I really would like to say is I don’t think that should be a consideration. I mean I’ve seen it happen over the last twenty years a number of times the person who was the next runner-up, so to speak, was the one that got appointed the next time there was a vacancy. I question whether that always was the ideal thing to do.

Wernet: Mr. Mayor

Bellman: Just a second Bill. I think I understand your point….your done in terms of….. yeah, Matt did you….

McGowan: My comments from before, I do think it’s important, I was in Carl’s shoes before when Dorothy was up here and I didn’t get her vote for the open seat, however, I’ve always made the comment if I was ever in that position, if someone came that close in an election, I owe it to the remaining people who voted in that election for that person. And I think Lisa would be a great person for that seat, but again, I would hope I’d do the same thing if Maxine came within 20 votes I would vote for her. I don’t know if I would but I would hope I would do that because again, that many people in the community did vote for her, or for him, and so that’s how I’d vote, and that’s how, you know, so I mean that’s what I would do, unless we’re here and perhaps the mayor would have to pick a candidate again like in the past.

Wernet: Yeah, I guess Dorothy, I feel that that is one element of things that are, is to be considered. And clearly Carl has had a uh, very significant amount of support in the community. I don’t think it’s the only element that applies but I think it is one of the, one of the many ingredients that go into the mix. Uh and um, so you know, I feel comfortable with people using that I personally don’t want to use that as the only criteria because I think there are all sorts of elements that need to go into the decision. Um, because unlike Matt, I’ll be real candid, and say that, that uh, I, as highly as I think of the per, the individual that he mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t vote for that individual for the place, even if she was in Carl’s position and had the next vote. I mean, I think there are elements other than that that go into the mix, and, and part of it, and part of it has to do with the mix of people and um, the mix of uh perspectives, um, there was concern mentioned about the uh, the township, uh, uh, sort of issues, and I guess uh, you know, the village is part of the township and um, I think um without speaking either way as to whether either candidate would be uh, better at working with the township, I think that that is a relevant consideration. Uh, I, I think its relevant to what extent people feel that individuals can work, uh, not only within this group, but with uh, with our surrounding communities, including the township. Um, so, uh, the only other remark that I’d like to make is that this is a very difficult uh decision for uh, I’ll just speak for myself, I believe it is for a number of , uh for myself, and uh, uh, uh, it’s one of those things that, I guess I asked for the position and so I’m stuck with it. Uh, but it is, it is an extremely difficult, uh, uh, discussion and decision because we have that ????? candidates, um including some that aren’t being considered and were being considered before, so uh, in any event, thank you Mr. Mayor.

Bellman: Any other comments from the audience. Okay. With that I suppose we vote but this time we’ll do a couple of things. Is that what we do?

Lucier: I would like to do a roll call.

Bellman: Okay. You want to do the roll call…..


 (8/19/98 Meeting Minutes continued- page 3)

**************** Adzic: Lucier - Carl Wilkenfeld Robertson - Carl Wilkenfeld Wernet - Lisa Minklei Rader - Lisa Minklei McGowan - Carl Wilkenfeld Bellman - Lisa Minklei

Bellman: Thanks, so we’re down to the three, three. Um, I mean we could go in and discuss our positions or we could, another way to do it is we could just instead open it up for all the candidates again and try another vote. Do you think that would do something? I’m open for ideas. (several comments inaudible) One other idea was just to put this off, go into the other business and see if we can you know, put this, get back to this at the end of the…..

McGowan: I could go with that and I could also point out to Council that uh we have until the end of the month to appoint someone to this seat too. So we do not have to do that tonight.

Bellman: When was Dan’s resignation……

Lucier: It was the last day of July.

McGowan: So we have until the 30th of this month.

Bellman: Is that right? My letter is dated the 31st, I don’t know when it was delivered but the letter was dated the 31st. 

Hurst: Okay, so you’ve got thirty…. it was effective that date, you have thirty days from it…...

McGowan: Previously I think when we a deadlock vote, we had to make a decision the next day. I remember we voted forty seven times, uh, however, uh,

Lucier: Forty seven?

McGowan: Correct, I think it was forty some.

Hickman: I think they were out of time basically.

McGowan: We had to go to midnight, and the mayor appointed. So we do have, I mean, it does not have to be decided tonight, if we would have a special meeting and decide it at a later time.

Hurst: You can call a special meeting. There’s a couple of different ways you could….

Wernet: Mr. Mayor, when you get a chance I’d like to say something.

Bellman: Sure, just give me a second. I’m just trying to figure out the days here. So we’re on the nineteenth now, if we were looking that way Matt, uh, that would give us basically next week, uh, you know, through Sunday the thirtieth, uh, one problem for someone who might not be available everyday, but I mean that certainly, uh, okay I’m sorry Bill.

Wernet: Yeah, I, I just uh. What strikes me is that we want, I think what we want is an individual who would be capable, clearly both individuals are very capable individuals. I think we also want an individual who is going to um, have the confidence of as many, other members of council as is possible. And um, all other things being, if one assumes that all other things are relatively equal, I think that a consensus candidate trumps a non consensus candidate. And that is said with um, uh, as I say this is a very difficult decision process from my perspective, as I related to, to Carl yesterday evening, um, I uh it was when Carl was saying, well gee, I don’t know if I want to be a council candidate, that I encouraged Lisa to join the, the uh fray. And so uh I have felt sort of like I have countervailing sorts of uh feelings about it. But uh, in any event, I think that it is important that we um, drive towards consensus rather than division and uh, I think that when you have uh, the two really superb candidates that we have, and again several others who are not in the running right now but were, were superb, I think that one needs to look to those other aspects to see who can uh, uh, pull, help pull things together, uh rather than uh, uh, rather than not. Um, so, thank you Mr. Mayor.

Bellman: Any other thoughts.

McGowan: I think if we did what Bill was suggesting, we open it back up to the public and anyone else who might be interested could also apply. I don’t, you know, if we’re going to continue the discussion, we actually ????????? the month and I’m not going to be in a position to come up with a compromise candidate tonight, cause we can’t decide on two of the candidates that were either our first or second choices.

Wernet: Well I guess what I’m saying, I think if you took a poll of this entire group.

Lucier: The council?

Wernet: The council, I think you wouldn’t find one member not one member who would vote against one of the people in front of us, but you would find at least one member who would vote against the other one. And these two individuals are both firmly committed, both Carl and Lisa I believe are firmly committed to doing the right think for Granville. One of the individuals involved, let’s face, let’s be candid, carries more baggage into the process. He’s a fine, fine person, but there is that reality, and that’s going to impact the way people feel that they are being treated. And, like it or not, that is the reality. And so um, I’m concerned about the impact that that will have. I’m concerned whether, and I think that that’s a, a concern that disappears with time. I personally think Carl has done a wonderful job on the Planning Commission. Really, really very good. But I think that there are still some, some things out there that cause people some distress. And some uh concern. And there are different ways of, of handling situations, and different times for those different ways. And uh, so I, I, when looking at, I mean it would be easy if there were just one of them in front of us. But looking at the relative choice, I think that um, uh that’s one of the things that I think, one of the elements I think we should consider. Um, in terms of uh, it was suggested that we, well we can, you know, wait and open it up for a bunch of other people and everything, I don’t, I don’t think that necessarily gains us anything. I think we’re a, a, we’re talking about two folks who are very similar here in many ways, uh, and uh, um, I guess I’m not confident that if Lisa had been running in the last election she wouldn’t have trumped all of us. I don’t think we know. Um, I don’t think we know what the votes for Carl necessarily meant either. Some of them were against Mr. Rader here, some of the votes for, well some of the votes were against Mr. Rader, and some of the votes for Mr. Rader were against Carl. So we really don’t know what totally that vote means. Um, I think it means that both Carl and Mr. Rader…..

Lucier: (inaudible)

Wernet: Excuse me…

Lucier: Excuse me.

Wernet: I’m talking if you don’t mind. I think it means that both Carl and Ben Rader had significant support amongst the public but I don’t think that means that Lisa Minklei does not. So those are my thoughts.

Bellman: Any other, Barb……

Lucier: I certainly don’t wish to engage in this. Thank you.

Bellman: Okay. Okay. Um, I’m open to ideas here. You know, one thing I’d like to do is, uh, a bit of an embarrassing situation to be in and, I’m, I’m sure everyone of us would like to avoid that. But things are flushed out, positions are stated, and uh, and so, I feel I need to address this. Uh, you know I (inaudible) for Lisa right now, but I want to make it clear that, that this says nothing about how I feel about Carl as a person. I like Carl. I think that Carl and I identify on many, many issues. Uh, I think that I’ve heard very good things from Carl from many sources, as I’ve told you privately, of how well you’ve done on the Planning Commission. So again, I have very high regard for you Carl. Um, I’ve weighed a lot of things. I’ve weighed the elections. I’ve weighed other things. And uh, over the last uh, uh, maybe of the last three to four days as some of you know I’ve been distracted with other events, personal events. But really focused on this over the last three days and I’ve weighed all of them, and I think you’re a great person, Carl, I really identify with you, I think you’re a wonderful, warm person, and, and, my position here, I hope you don’t, I know you’re taking it personally with the way your reacting, but I hope you wouldn’t because it’s not reflective of how I feel about you. Uh, what it is reflective of is, is, um how I feel about the community, and how I feel about a movement that many of you in the audience are part of. I’ve always felt that it’s important for that movement to do well, to work well, and uh to survive, to assure that uh, the majority that we have here carries on in the future. Uh, and so I’m looking at a lot of different factors right now. Uh, I know for myself in the past I’ve had discussions with people I felt on a personal level, if I ever needed to step aside or do something for the good of what I see a lot of people put time and effort in over the last uh, several months and couple years, that I’d be willing to do that. And I’m making my decision tonight not on a personal level but really more focused on who I think the best person with a lot of different factors, and a lot of different skills, weighing benefits and some other factors, weighting that all together I simply think Lisa is best for this position. And secondly, I’ve been very happy with you on the Planning Commission. So I think, you know, I’m not, I would be unhappy losing you there so I guess I like that mix where Lisa would probably come in here and use you on the Planning Commission. So I’m doing that more as a public explanation, you know we’ve had some private discussions and you know, uh, you know some of those, more specifically some of those factors. But I want to make it clear that this isn’t, this isn’t a personal statement on you. I mean, I don’t see this as, I’m not opposed to you, I like you, I’m simply choosing uh, you know, in this instance who I think would be better for that position. So if anybody else has any comments.

Robertson: Yeah, I want to say something. Um, much of the reason that Bill and Barb and I were elected to the Council does directly have to do with the roughly seventy percent of the people who keep responding to surveys saying, uh, we don’t want uncontrolled development in Granville. Um, we’ve had survey’s back to the 1960’s. One of my students last summer dug all of this out. The people in Granville don’t want uncontrolled development, and that’s why we’re sitting here. Um, when I was on the Planning Commission and became um, increasingly concerned that we are heading down the road toward uncontrolled development, I started calling my friends, I started calling people and saying, please start coming to meetings, start speaking, start getting involved here because if you don’t, we’re going to have uncontrolled development here. And let me assure you, uncontrolled is what I’m focusing on. Development is okay, but uncontrolled development is not. Um, at that time, I didn’t know Carl Wilkenfeld at all and when I called one of my friends he said, "you ought to talk, you ought to meet Carl Wilkenfeld. He’s really concerned about this and he doesn’t know what to do about it. And so he’s the kind of person who you probably need to get involved". And so Carl started getting involved, and he got more and more involved. Carl, even when he didn’t have a job, was willing to put up bond money for something that he believed in. That was, and he believed that that was going to help Granville. Now how many of us in that position would take our savings that’s, you know that we’re trying to fall back on, uh and put it towards something that we really love. Maybe we’d all be more practical. Um, that impresses me though that Carl has that kind of commitment to this town. Um, and I’m really glad that he’s done what he’s been able to do in the last few years. I, I would also say that I think, you will never know how, why people vote the way they do, precisely. Um, I suppose we could go and do exit poles, interviews, whatever, and try to figure it out. We don’t know, we could cast a scenario of six hundred thirty three votes in a variety of ways, but I would like to think, um having happily been the first the person who got the most votes the last time around and having been a person who spoke very strongly and worked very hard on the Planning Commission against uncontrolled development, I would like to think that those six hundred and thirty three votes represent people who also don’t want that. And I think you’ve got a lot of evidence that the people in Granville don’t want it and that’s how I read the election. Um, and that’s why I’m supporting Carl.

Bellman: Okay

Wernet: Mr. Mayor, I’d like, just real quickly, I’d like to ????? concur with a lot of elements of Lyn’s analysis. Um, you know all I’m saying is I think um, I think um, Lisa shares those same concerns and visions. Um admittedly not to, I don’t know, I can’t say, but I think Carl, you are right, Carl’s contribution has been singular in nature. Uh with respect to certain developments. And for that, the Village ought be forever indebted and is forever indebted to Carl. Um, I also believe that, that Carl worked um, to try to help me um, get elected. Um, and uh, so it’s like the, the mayor, this is not a no vote on Carl, it’s more of a feeling that the, uh Carl’s, Carl’s laughing, um that’s exactly the kind of, sort of thing that concerns me. Uh, in any event, I think that uh, um, that the uh, I, I feel very strongly that Lisa would be equally aggressive and uh, in trying to uh, uh, limit growth to a both a sensible ??????? and a sensible nature. But I certainly agree with you that the Village owes a great uh debt to Carl and under no circumstances would want the Village to lose his, his uh talents.

Bellman: Any other comments?

McGowan: I’d like to make a motion that we have one more vote and if we do not pick a candidate on this vote that we uh go away from voting the rest of the night, open it back up and pick a date and reconvene and try to pick a candidate at a later date.

Lucier: I’ll second that motion.

Bellman: Okay. All those in favor.


Bellman: Okay, we’ll do one more voice vote.

*************** Adzic: Lucier - Carl Wilkenfeld Robertson - Carl Wilkenfeld Wernet - Lisa Minklei Rader - Lisa Minklei McGowan - Carl Wilkenfeld Bellman - Lisa Minklei




 (8/19/98 Meeting Minutes continued- page 4) Bellman: Okay.

McGowan: ???? meeting when we could pick a time we could have a special meeting when we could vote again…. unless we have time later on to do it but I’d like …

Bellman: Um, the rest of the week for me is shot. And um next week….. the only day I could really, for myself that I could commit too would be this next Wednesday, the 26th. I mean I could be available other days but there’s a lot of things I’ve got to move.

Rader: I am.

McGowan: Wednesday would be find with me.

Bellman: Is that okay with you - Lyn, Barb?

Robertson: I don’t know, I don’t have my calendar with me.

Bellman: The twenty-sixth.

Lucier: I don’t think it works for me. Sorry.

Bellman: Okay. I don’t know if there’s another day. It’s just………

Rader: We could do a Saturday.

Lucier: Saturday would work for me.

Bellman: Saturday the 29th?….

Wilkenfeld: Could I make a statement?

Bellman: Sure.

Wilkenfeld: I, I, deeply appreciate (inaudible). Obviously, a person with great feelings is something (inaudible). A person who really says what they believe and who they are (inaudible). I can live with that. It’s also saying I do not want to see this community torn apart. I’m withdrawing my name, and so you don’t have to go through this. I thank you all.. (Inaudible) the Planning Commission.

Bellman: Rufus, where does that put us?

Hurst: Well you already passed a motion that says you aren’t going to vote again. So unless somebody wants to present another motion to open it back up let’s get on with this agenda.

Bellman: Do you, do you…..

Wernet: We want to recess for….

Bellman: You want a recess…

Wernet: Yeah, I think that makes sense.

Bellman: Five minutes. ____________________________ Bellman: We have had a motion which passed before our last vote that said we’d take one more vote, which we did and that would be it for the night. And then, additional events, of course transpired, uh, so I guess I’m open to hear what people want to do and it certainly (inaudible) another motion before we could vote again. Does anybody have any thoughts, where we go from here? Barb your smiling, do you have any thoughts?

Lucier: Yes, I, I would really like us to start in again with the original slate minus the people who have withdrawn.

Bellman: The, the whole slate? Okay, so when we say that, that means Mr. Van Winkle would be off….

Lucier: Well since he withdrew….. 

Bellman: Right…

Lucier: Yeah, and Carl….

Bellman: Withdrawal Carl too….

Lucier: Yeah. 

Bellman: And so then we would be down to, uh, Jim Jump, Lisa Minklei, Maxine Montgomery, Candi Moore and Troy Reed.

Lucier: Of course I only have one ballot left.

McGowan, Robertson: I’ve got some.

Bellman: We’re doing it by voice, I’m mean we could just mark it down.

Rader: Does everybody agree to that?

????: Agree to what?

Rader: Start all over again.

Wernet: Whatever people want to do is fine with me. I’m pretty flexible.

Lucier: Well it’s just an idea…..

Bellman: Well, I’m (inaudible) any idea that gives us a different approach.

Rader: Well I think we’ve narrowed it down to two candidates and one has withdrawn…..

McGowan: I think we’ve got three options here. We can either go with the one remaining candidate, we can open it back up or we can reconvene at a later date and pick from a new slate of candidates. Those are the three options we have in front of us.

Wernet: My preference is for one of the first two…

Bellman: What would you prefer…..?

McGowan: Well, I mean, I, I don’t have a preference towards any but I,I don’t think it’s fair for the other candidates if one person withdraws then we just go ahead and say okay your the person that got three votes is automatically in, I mean….

Hurst: It takes four votes.

McGowan: …….I mean, you know, what Ben was saying is that we only have one person left so what are we voting for.

Bellman: Okay. Now.

Wernet: I have no expressed preference. And I have no preference - whichever way people want to go is fine with me.

Robertson: I’m in favor of going back to the original slate minus the people who’ve withdrawn.

Bellman: Okay. And, and is everybody in agreement that we do it voice, without the ballot, is that what we’re doing from now on …

McGowan: Or do you want to do whatever we did originally and rank two. Or whatever we did originally and rank three…..

Bellman: Uh, I’m really open to any ideas anybody had……

Wernet: We can do it just the way we did it before… I mean I don’t care..

Lucier: Just narrow it down?

Wernet: Yeah.

Bellman: Okay.

Hurst: We need a motion.

Bellman: Just a second, we’re just talking to see what we want to do first. ????? do the ballot and there are two and then we go to the regular voice vote? Okay. Okay, now we need a motion to open this up for voting again.

McGowan: I, I like my motion I had before, so if someone else wants to change it, I’ll let them change it.

Bellman: What was the motion?

McGowan: My motion before was to vote at another later date. That was my motion, so I’m not going, I’m not going to change the motion. I can live with what I had motioned before. If someone else wants to vote at tonight, I’ll go along with that. But I’m not amending the motion.

Wernet: I’d like to move that we vote tonight. First, uh narrowing down two votes, and then uh, to one.

Bellman: Okay so approved……

Lucier: I second the motion.

Bellman: Okay.

Rader: How many do we vote for?

Bellman: Two is what we were saying.

Robertson: Vote for two?

McGowan: We voted for three the first time.

Bellman: ….but you were saying two.

McGowan: Well, I don’t care what the number is.

Bellman: What’s your motion Bill?

Wernet: Uh, two

Bellman: Two, then… Barb is that what your seconding?

Lucier: It’s fine. Yes.

Bellman: Okay, uh….

Robertson: Should we vote on that?

Bellman: All those in favor?


**************** Bellman: Okay. Uh, those having more than four or more would be Jim Jump or Lisa Minklei. So is that what we want to do is vote from their. Okay. I, I, uh, this puts me in a little bit more of an uncomfortable position. At this point, uh, as you know Jim and I are somewhat related, uh…. So

Wernet: Just wait till I tell Fran how you phrased that. (laughter)

Bellman: But anyway, I think very highly of Jim, and uh, I would feel uncomfortable voting for you Jim, under these circumstances, and I explained that to you earlier. And if all things were equal I think I would very seriously consider you.

Jump: I don’t think you should vote for me under any scenario. (Laughter) I don’t ???? but it certainly gives the appearance of (inaudible)….

Lucier: Which of you would be the nephew? (Laughter)

Bellman: Okay, well then we go to our voice then, voice votes for, for….

Lucier: Do you think it would be possible to stagger how we vote and not always have my vote be the first one.

Bellman: Let’s do it in reverse.

***************** Adzic: Bellman - um, I suppose Lisa Minklei McGowan - Jim Jump Rader - Lisa Minklei Wernet - um, um a difficult decision but Lisa Minklei Robertson - Lisa Minklei Lucier - Lisa Minklei

Bellman: Okay. Well it looks like we made a decision then. Lisa. 


Wernet: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor real quickly. I’d just like to ask Lisa if she’s reconsidered. (Laughter).

Bellman: Lisa, would you like to come up and join us?

End of Transcript #######################


 A public hearing was held on Ordinance No. 13-98, An Ordinance To Amend Chapter 1167.02 (b) Of The Codified Ordinances Of The Village Of Granville, Ohio. No one appeared to speak for or against Ordinance No. 13-98. The public hearing on Ordinance No. 13-98 was closed at 9:08 p.m.

 A public hearing was held on Ordinance No. 14-98, An Ordinance To Amend Chapter 1171.04 Of The Codified Ordinances Of The Village Of Granville, Ohio.

Law Director Hurst stated that he will recommend this ordinance be either tabled indefinitely or defeated.

Public hearing on Ordinance No. 14-98 was closed at 9:09p.m. REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF MINUTES

 The minutes of the regularly scheduled meeting of August 5, 1998 were presented for review. Councilmember Rader moved to approve the minutes. Seconded by Councilmember Wernet. Motion carried. 

 The record of the special meeting of August 1, 1998 was presented for review. Councilmember Wernet moved to approve this record. Second by Councilmember Lucier. Motion carried. MAYOR’S REPORT 

 The Mayor’s Court Report for the month of July was presented for review.

 Mayor Bellman directed the clerk to file the report. A copy of that report is attached as part of these minutes. MANAGER’S REPORT

 The Manager’s Report for the month of July was presented for review. 

Councilmember Robertson inquired about the drop in police foot patrol hours.

Councilmember Wernet moved to accept the Manager’s Report. Councilmember lyn seconded. Motion carried. A copy of said report is attached as part of these minutes.


Those signing the register were: See attached list.

Dorothy Garrett of 45 Donald Ross Drive voiced a concern about the proposed purchase of the Bennett property on the corner of N. Prospect and Broadway. She also questioned whether, as rumored, this particular piece of property was an appropriate site for a parking lot. She feels that if the village is concerned about the future of that site, the Village should rely on zoning laws for limitations.

James Jump of 143 Thresher Street stated he was also opposed to a parking lot. However he does feel this is a premier piece of property which could be put to good use for the future life of the Village.

Keith Myers of 229 E. College Street stated he was pleased to read that the Village Council was considering the purchase of the Bennett lot. He noted that it is not unprecedented as Dublin has undergone similar acquisitions of "critical corner’s" in their community. 

COMMITTEE REPORTS Vice Mayor McGowan noted that the Personnel Committee is recommending a work session be scheduled with Council for the purpose of discussing several issues (such as reimbursement for college tuition, cost of living, etc.). A work session is tentatively planned for September.

Manager Hickman noted a meeting of the Fanchion Lewis Committee is scheduled for September 1, 1998 - 7:00pm in Village Council Chambers.

Mayor Bellman noted that the first JEDD meeting is scheduled for September 9, 1998 - 7:00pm at the Licking County Administration Building. 

OLD BUSINESS Ordinance No. 13-98, An Ordinance To Amend Chapter 1167.02 (b) Of The Codified Ordinances Of The Village Of Granville, Ohio was re-introduced, its title read and moved for adoption by Councilmember Rader. Second by Councilmember McGowan.

 Roll Call Vote: McGowan yes, Lucier yes, Robertson yes, Wernet yes, Rader yes, Minklei yes, Bellman yes. Seven yes votes. Ordinance No. 13-98 was adopted.

Ordinance No. 14-98, An Ordinance To Amend Chapter 1171.04 Of The Codified Ordinances Of The Village Of Granville, Ohio was re-introduced, its title read by Vice Mayor McGowan. Second by Councilmember Lucier. 

Law Director Hurst noted that due to the most recent action by the Fifth District Court of Appeals his recommendation is to defeat or indefinitely table this ordinance. He also noted that the Village PUD has been restructured under the assumption that it is an administrative act. 

Roll Call Vote: McGowan no, Lucier no, Robertson no, Wernet no, Rader no, Minklei no, Bellman no. Ordinance No. 14-98 was defeated. 


Resolution No. 98-30, A Resolution Of Appreciation To Daniel Freytag, was introduced and read in full by Councilmember Bellman on behalf of all councilmembers. Second by Councilmember Rader. Motion carried. Resolution No. 98-30 was adopted. Comprehensive Review Plan Charles Metzger, Co-chair of the Comprehensive Review Committee and speaking on behalf of the Committee noted they were please with the cooperation from the Village staff during this review. He also thanked the Police Department for their cooperation in the use of the Village Building during non-office hours.

 Keith Myers, Co-chair of the Comprehensive Review Committee also noted the pleasurable experience with the group, trustees, etc. He stated that this plan was the product of a group of different people and ideas. He noted there had been attention given to the Neighborhood Residential District, and Agricultural District with changes now being seen as a potential opportunity to enhance open space. He noted there was an error on Page 17 of the proposed plan on the location map pertaining to the extension of Louden Street. He then thanked everyone for their cooperation.

Councilmember Wernet compliment Charlie Metzger, John Downing, and Keith Myers for the quality of the final draft.

Mayor Bellman requested Manager Hickman coordinate a Work Session for September between the Village Council, Township, and School for the review of the plan.

 Bennett Property Law Director Hurst noted that the previous legislation adopted by Council authorized and directed for the preparation and submittal of the proposal for the Bennett property. He advised that this document be executed as directed. If this contract is accepted, under the terms and conditions set for an ordinance will be prepared and set for public hearing.

 There was some discussion about "earnest" money as listed in the proposal. As no one on Council could remember this being discussed, Law Director Hurst stated he would inquire as to this purpose of this condition.



 Full Council made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 9:50p.m. Full council seconded. Motion carried. 


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